25 min read

Beautiful Leadership

Beautiful Leadership

When I hear the word "leadership," the first thing I think of is the comic strip Dilbert.

Like the TV show "The Office," it is a satirical and somewhat exaggerated portrayal of office life, where the absurdities of corporate bureaucracy are on full display. The immense popularity of Dilbert is due to its uncanny ability to resonate with the everyday worker's frustration with ineffective leadership and the often soul-sucking culture of modern-day workplaces.

Dilbert Classics Meme
Source: https://www.gocomics.com/comics/lists/1628640/dilbert-pointy-haired-boss-comics

The Pointy-Haired Boss, Dilbert's manager, exemplifies leadership gone awry. Clueless and out of touch, he makes decisions that are not only unhelpful but also counterproductive. His lack of empathy for employees and his obliviousness to the real-world implications of his decisions results in a workplace that is dysfunctional and all too relatable.

My guest in today's podcast episode puts forward an antidote to the mode of leadership on display in Dilbert's world.

Esther Blázquez Blanco works with leaders, teams, and organizations crafting businesses that speak human. She does this by revealing the human connection and the emotional intimacy that exists in life. She works as a Company Culture and Leadership Consultant, Speaker, Executive Coach, and systemic Facilitator. Esther helps companies find the truth behind the role and develop the relationship between the human and the company, and grow--or scale--in peace. Her vision is human, spiritual, simple, and direct. Esther is a journalist with a background in Innovation, Project Management, and fast-growing Startups. She has also dedicated part of her life to the study and teaching of meditation, performance, and personal growth.

Esther brings to her practice the curiosity of a journalist and the tenacity of an innovator. In our conversation, she speaks of leadership as the art of truly knowing another—beyond titles and roles, to the core of their very being. She shares insights on how leaders who are genuinely committed to the people they serve can build beautiful cultures within their organizations by fostering vulnerability and genuine connection. She talks about the importance of engaging with team members beyond their KPIs and OKRs, without neglecting these either.

Her work shows how a "beautiful" culture isn't one where people hold hands and sing "Kumbaya"; it's not a place devoid of conflict and discord, but rather, one that learns to dance gracefully with it. Such a culture, Esther believes, is not without its flaws, but it is in acknowledging and working through imperfections and weaknesses that a truly beautiful culture is built.

Her message is particularly salient in our age of rampant burnout and quiet quitting. She argues that when leaders take the time to truly engage with their team members, to understand them at a fundamental level, they unlock a level of trust and cooperation that transcends traditional motivational tactics. It's about cultivating a leadership style that’s less about dictating and more about listening, less about commanding and more about collaborating.

In our conversation, Esther elucidates the transformative power of this leadership approach with compelling stories and practical advice drawn from her expansive experience. She reveals that the most impactful leaders are those who dare to be vulnerable, to share their own stories, and to listen deeply to those of others. By doing so, they foster an environment where creativity and innovation can flourish, where team members feel truly seen and heard, and where the workplace becomes a source of energy rather than exhaustion.

The pervasive and lasting appeal of Dilbert lies in its comedic reflection of an all-too-recognizable workplace malaise. Esther provides a roadmap out of that cynicism. Her insights offer not only a stark contrast to Dilbert's world, but also a beacon of hope for those yearning for a more fulfilling professional experience. She invites us to reimagine what leadership could be and inspires us to take steps toward creating more human-centric workplaces.

You can watch our conversation below on YouTube or listen to it wherever you get your podcasts. Don't forget to subscribe and leave a review if her message resonates with you, since it helps to spread these discussions to a wider audience. An unedited transcript follows.

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Interview transcript

Brandon: Esther, it's such a delight to have you on the podcast. Thank you so much for joining us.

Esther: Thank you, Brandon.

Brandon: Great. I want to get started by asking you about your childhood, growing up and particularly your journey into journalism, which I'm very curious about. Could you tell me where you grew up, what your childhood was like, and what drew you to this path?

Esther: I'm not sure why. Well, I know, of course. But I'm not sure if at that moment I had this clarity of mind to study, to choose that career. That's what I mean. But from all the options that I had at that moment, I really knew by that time that I love writing and I love people, meeting people. At some point, I pictured myself traveling around the world when I was 17 or 18 years old. I don't know. I was picturing myself traveling around the world and meeting all kinds of people and telling their stories. I was very interested in telling, sharing other people's stories. During a certain time, I did that. I was into the documentary, more backstage work. I was helping with production for advertising, which I didn't like, to documentaries, which I loved. I never jumped into the correspondent work or writing for a newspaper. I don't know, but I didn't have this call for becoming an expert on finance and writing news about finance or about politics.

Business newspaper article
Photo by AbsolutVision / Unsplash

I was very interested in culture, very interested in art — philosophy, in general. So I think that those ingredients made me. Actually, I remember another reason. I wanted to interview people. I wanted to have the chance to interview people. I think that, subconsciously, I was looking for really connecting with human beings. That's the reason why I decided to study journalism.

Brandon: Yeah, I'm curious to know whether there were any factors in your childhood that led you to this desire to connect and to foster connection, to foster intimacy. Does that come from your family environment? Does that come from something you experienced that you wanted to share, that you didn't see in the world around you? Or does it come conversely from something that you experienced a lack of, and you want it to make happen? How did that come about?

Esther: Yeah, my brother, he was the angular stone for many, many key events in my life. Because he was born with a mental damage, a brain damage. So during all his life until his final departure, he was always between three years, four years, seven years depending on tasks. He was a constant invitation to many things, like to creativity, for instance, to think differently, to wonder what is normal.

I remember that was painful, as you can imagine. There is a terrible word in Spanish that, for years ago, kids used to use this word to call someone with mental brain damages, which is subnormal. It's like subnormal. It's a bad word for insulting. I remember seeing this at school. I remember wondering what is normal. What is normal and what is subnormal? What is under normality, and what is over normality? As a kid, you wonder why they are using this word to call a beautiful human being. Because he was innocent, or you can imagine he was innocent all his life. I don't know. I remember he used to sing Christmas songs during the whole year. That was beautiful because it was when you sing a Christmas song or something, I don't know. I like that. And why not? So if you sing that, that is normal. Do you know what I mean? So that was part of my wonder at that time.

Also, I think it was not a long time ago that I used to reflect on my brother. Because trying to figure out his mind, I think, was the beginning of why I wanted to know more about the human being. Because I had to understand. I was born after him. So he was one of the most important people in my life, but I didn't understand many things. I think that understanding his way, his behaviors, his way of loving, his way of translating the world he used to see around him was the key factor for me to be this interested and passionate about human beings. To show you an example, he used to repeat things two or three times when he was speaking with you. One of the things he used to say was, "What's my name? What's my name? What's my name?" He just comes to my bedroom to say, "What's my name? What's my name? What's my name? Tell me who I am. Tell me who I am. Tell me who I am." That was not comfortable, as you can imagine. I'm not trying to romanticize the experience because, as I said, it was full of joy, mysteries, and glories as we can imagine.

The thing is that if I link that experience of his questions to leadership, it was when I started to work on leadership that I realized he had the answer. I had in front of me what a leader is. A leader is someone who wants to know your name. Not name and surnames. A leader is someone who wants to know who are you. Who are you, tell me. So I don't have a definition for leader. I'm not interested either in finding the big quote to define a leader. But I do know that I see, I can recognize a leader in front of me when I'm with someone that really wants to know who is the person in front of them. That means a lot because it's knowing beyond ideas, skin, form, even opinions. It's knowing way more beyond opinions.

Brandon: Yeah, that's remarkable.

Esther: Like you do with your podcast. This is what you do, right? In your research.

Brandon: Well, thank you. Yeah, I'm just interested in people. I don't know if I'd call myself a leader. But I am interested in that, in your journey, into that domain. You're starting out as a journalist, and you want to tell stories. How do you then go from there into the business world and into the work you do with leadership? How did that journey unfold?

Esther: I think full disclosure, I understand I have to answer with the understanding that I got a few years ago, which is, I have the feeling that I had two parallel lives. One of them was school university, studying journalism, then running a communication department, working on production, and then working as a project manager and running projects and having this. I have the feeling that it was successful in every word that I used to do. But there was always something missing.

The other life, like which runs in parallel, is having a very strong spiritual awakening when I was 14, which was a secret for me. Because I was feeling stuff that I couldn't share with anyone. Because I don't know. I had the feeling that we were more than what we were seeing around. I had a feeling that there was — I don't know. I have this call for spirituality and mysticism and all that. I started to read about personal development as well. That was the beginning of a path.

My parents are Catholics. So part of my answers, I used to find part of these answers in church. We're going to church with them on Sunday. I was lucky also that I went to a school where the religion teacher spent a year speaking about love. Not about the Bible. It's just about love as a philosophical concept, really cultivating the love of the banks, for instance. But then, I was like, but there is something else. There must be more. So I did experimental theater. I did train myself as a yoga and meditation teacher. I went to ceremonies, different kind of ceremonies, dance, clown, many different disciplines that were somehow fulfilling my spirit.

But they were not together, these two worlds. The consciousness that I was having in a ritual, it was something that I couldn't see reflected on the business world. For me, I was worried about that. I was worried about how is it possible that we are two completely different people? One is like the one dressed in a formal way going to the office. The other one, in this beautiful circle of people showing and sharing with our vulnerability, the things that drive us as human beings.

There was this moment that I had this crisis. I had a breakdown. That was for me the moment to stop and to reflect, and to go to therapy, and to ask me very uncomfortable questions but the right ones. That was the beginning. In that moment, it was like, okay, Esther, what is it that you want to do that you would die doing that thing? This is what I — at the beginning, there was a few months of nothing, no answer. I was like, I don't know. I don't know. I was in fear. I was afraid of verbalizing. Then I said, okay. This is it. This is what I want to do. That was the beginning. Because then, it's when Tim Leberecht who you invited to your podcast already—

Brandon: Yeah, I interviewed. He was on my last episode, yeah.

Esther: Yeah, he invited me to go to his event. He said, "I would like you to run something about feedback and leadership." That was the beginning. I went there. I went to the event. I did a three-hour session about events and experiential session about my vision on leadership in companies. That was the beginning. I got my first clients.

Brandon: Well, let's go back to the moment you had this crisis, this breakdown, and then you get some clarity. Could you describe what the clarity was like? What did you recognize that you were supposed to be doing? How would you describe that?

Esther: Now that you mentioned this, it's coming to my mind. The picture of the cavern, Platon, the philosopher. How do you say it?

Brandon: Plato's cave, yeah.

brown rock formation during daytime
Photo by Bradley Dunn / Unsplash

Esther: Yeah, Platos? Platos?

Brandon: Yeah, Plato's cave.

Esther: Platon. They say Platon.

Brandon: Sure. Yeah, that's right. The cave. Yes, of course.

Esther: The cave. Okay. Because this myth speaks about going from darkness to beauty, actually, which is what he calls light. He says that at the end of this cavern, you'll find beauty that you can also call light, or God, or whatever you feel. I think that that was my experience — going from darkness to knowing. For me, it was knowing that I want to devote my life to human connection, deep human connection, and that I truly know that we can, with each other, elevate our spirits through human connection. This is something that we all can do. So our presence can be our offering for the person in front of us to shine. That was what I saw. That was what I — it was like my truth, my vision. I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but it's very honest.

Brandon: Yeah, you are. So you get that certainty about what you're drawn to do. Going back to maybe Plato's metaphor, he does say that when you go from the darkness into the light, it's initially painful. It's difficult to acclimate yourself to the new environment. Did you have a struggle moving from what you used to do to what you do now? What was that journey like in between?

Esther: Of course. I'm happy that you asked this question. Because if a podcast can help people to break the stigma about therapy and about personal development and about really sharing vulnerability, and sharing our pains and analyzing, psychoanalyzing, et cetera, blessings. It was very painful of course if you have a breakdown. After the break down, you can see, okay. That made sense because I had to see this or realize about that. But the path is as painful as Plato or any other wise human being can say.

It is difficult for our egos to find rest in not knowing. Our egos, this is another subject. But actually, for me, it was painful not to know what is what I really wanted to do in my life as a professional. I had great relationships around me. I had creative stuff, but I was not happy with my work. Really, I wasn't.

Brandon: That recognition of finding your purpose in bringing about connection and intimacy, was that able to pull you out of the pain that you were in? How did that recognition that you call to bring about intimacy and connection, how did that practically change what you were doing? I suppose maybe that's another thing I'm interested in. What did you start to do differently once you started to realize that your work had to be about bringing about intimacy and connection?

Esther: In my case, I decided to run my own business. I had to make tangible the intangible. I had to design a communication program or a leadership program where life was at the center of the strategy of the problem, where human beings were the key piece of the whole thing.

Brandon: What does that look like practically for you?

Esther: You need courage. Because when you propose leadership or when you propose a team, board members, for instance, when you propose to them and you say, "Okay. Let's go inside. Let's look inside," I normally create a safe space. I use the body to work. I like to work with the body, with the mind, with the spirit. It's not only people sitting around the table and then intellectually speaking about how great the idea is, the idea that they are proposing is. I work in these dimensions. They don't speak from just their minds.

There is a moment where this intimate space is created. For instance, I ask them to share what they want to leave on earth before they die, and what is what they really care about in life, and what is what they love in life. With those questions, there is no way. If you answer what have you loved in life, you answer this question, and you share the answer with the people you are with, you will be able to explore this agreement forever because you know what each of you will love. So you are in a safe space. You are in a space that is so intimate, so true, and so lovely that you can even explore this agreement.

You don't even have to share the same opinions about politics, music, anything. You can work for a purpose by knowing, by connecting that way. Then after we have that conversation, then we define our OKRs, our KPIs, the MRR that we desire. Of course, it is not that we leave that apart. That is part of the conversation. But this conversation, it is urgent that we have these conversations from this perspective, from this state of mind, heart, spirit. Because otherwise, it's just coming from here. And then what? What happens when we have to disagree? We cannot explore this agreement, because your opinion and my opinion are going to make us going into opposite directions. Then we go to sleep, which is the preface of how we are going to die or it's the way that I say it. They will go to sleep, and we go to sleep thinking the thing that I didn't say, the sentence that I — we go to sleep with a war inside our mind. We should go to sleep with peace of mind, not with war.

Brandon: War is an interesting concept to bring up. Because for a lot of people, business is war in the sense that there's this way in which people do business that's constantly about dealing with competition and winning, and winning at any cost. A lot of strategy is, leaders take inspiration from books about war in general. And so it's often used as a metaphor for success in business. I'm curious to know whether you face any resistance from that war-like orientation among leaders or in companies. Have you encountered people with that sort of framework, and how do you approach them? Can you only work with people who are open to something different? What has it been like?

Esther: I am open to work with people that are willing to, even if they are coming from the war. But if they feel, they sense that there must be peace on the other side and that they really are committed to that, then — because I know what war is because I have had experienced it.

There are two key concepts that I like to work with. One is the concept of the infinite game that was created by an economist called James P. Carse or John P. Carse. James, I think it's James P. Carse. That Simon Sinek, in his book, The Infinite Game, Simon Sinek, he speaks about this concept. To recap, I hope to do it this way. We've been trained on finite games, which is winning like a soccer match. Just winning. We haven't been trained or educated in playing a game where the goal is to keep playing, not to win. Because there is not — war is winning in business. It is crazy. It's like winning in life. What is winning in life? What is winning in business? Like in business, sometimes you are ahead. Sometimes you are behind. Your goal should be to keep playing and speaking about war, to identify your rivals as worthy rivals.

So if there is a rival, as far as this rival is a worthy rival, then we are fine. Why? Because a worthy rival is a rival that is working for a purpose, for a great cause. So you are on the same page, and there is a market for everyone. Because by having this, it's like a mindset or glasses. If you put yourself on the glasses of the infinite game, then you can identify your worthy rivals. As people, you can learn from — because they are ahead in some things that you are behind, so you can always learn from these people. And if they have this great cause, this purpose, if they are working to really, really, really make the world a better place, then good for them.

I think this is beautiful. I have goosebumps. Because imagine the entire world, we can all do this. We can all create our businesses with this mindset, this idea. That could be lovely to learn this at school. It could be amazing because then you are not constantly focusing on beating your rival. Because that is worth outside and it's worth inside. Then you go to sleep. War is what we see outside: anxiety, stress, depression, constant comparison. I compare myself with people that is apparently doing better, winning more, making it better, et cetera, et cetera. That's a nightmare. It is a nightmare. We have planted the seed of thinking that that's a good thing. That, oh, no, having rivals is like my gosh. I like to compete, et cetera, et cetera. I understand there is a narrative of that. That is good. Yeah, you go. You compete of course, as far as you wish, the best for your rivals. Then it's a nice competition.

Brandon: I think you're also at scenes depicting a picture of the beautiful game, the idea of good sportsmanship. There’re these ideals here. I want you to talk about culture because you've talked about leadership. Maybe we could say beautiful leadership has this quality of wanting to know who are you. And really, the leader is the one who wants to know your name, who wants to know what you're called to, who wants to know what you're capable of, and helping you flourish potentially whether that's in this company or somewhere else. But I think that commitment to the person seems to be central. I'm curious to know, what is a beautiful culture in an organization? What does that look like, and how do you create it? How do you make that happen?

Esther: It is important to clarify that a beautiful culture is a very imperfect culture. This is important. Because some people, when the company decides to invest in company culture, the reaction is sometimes you have different reactions. With any kind of change in organizations, there are different voices that raise in reaction to the proposal. One of them is, we cannot say that we are building a beautiful culture because we have this problem and this problem and this problem. But then, if you have the people leading the company committed — this is key. Because a beautiful culture cannot be built just with the people, with middle management, or just with the labels. It's not that I like to speak about labels. But it is no way you can build that without everyone involved. That's not possible. It has to be. Everyone involved is very important.

But what I was saying before is that building a beautiful culture is a commitment. It's a beautiful commitment. It's a worth-it commitment. And with this, that is going to be not easy. It's going to be complex. It's like a relationship. You get married with someone, or you commit to have a relationship with someone. It's not going to be perfect. You are going to have to deal with not being beautiful. These is small but big, right? Because sometimes when we see that something not beautiful is happening or that your CEO, they fire someone that you think is not her, sometimes the reaction is, well, that's not beautiful. Perhaps, it's not. But if we don't know, we should analyze profoundly that thing.

But building a beautiful company culture is a place to go. It's a place to go. It's a commitment. Then each time that it's not beautiful as you want to build this beautiful culture, each time that it's not happening, then you have created already a human space, an intimate space, a safe space, et cetera, et cetera, where people can gather and speak about it without being in danger for speaking up.

man using MacBook
Photo by charlesdeluvio / Unsplash

Brandon: I wanted to ask if you might have an example that comes to mind of a transformation you've been able to bring about in a company where they're able to embrace this ideal of a beautiful culture. What does it take for them to commit to that? Then while they go through the struggles, how can they remain in this space that you've created practically? Does that make sense? It'd be great if you could give us an example of what you've seen.

Esther: Yeah, you're pointing out something very key, which is remain. I'm working with a client that called me to create and design and implement the whole strategy for an area called the beautiful business area, actually, inside the company. This big company, they said, "Okay. We want to create an area which is focused on culture." They have already people area. They wanted to call this area focused on culture, a beautiful business. That's the thing. First, we listen to the people. It wasn't me going to the company and saying, "Hey, this is how to build a beautiful culture in this company. This is the how-to." I refuse a lot to work with the how-tos.

I refuse a lot to copy paste what the big startups are doing. You can get inspired. You can see frameworks, tools, things that they do to see if they are good for the company you're working with. But not a copy paste, please. Because that culture in that company, it's fulfilled by people. They have names and surnames, and they are coming from different places. They are diverse and rich. They need to feel seen and listened. They need to share where they envision as a great company culture. So you first do that. Even if you have brilliant ideas as a consultant — this is a message for all the consultants that may be listening to this podcast. Please, first, even if you have what you think that is the magic formula, no, you go first and you listen. You listen. You ask people. What is what you see? What is what you need? What is what worries you, et cetera, et cetera? This is a key thing.

Another key thing to highlight. Because there are many things, but I could highlight three. The second one could be there will be resistance until they have the experience of what you are running in as an experience of beautiful business, of a beautiful culture. Meaning that you create the department. You do a great communication campaign, whatever. But people, they need to live with their bodies and minds. What is that thing that you are doing? Because otherwise, it's the judgmental side of your mind doing the work. The experience that they have is that when they go through the experience of, okay, let's work on new cultural behaviors or cultural behaviors for this company for the business growth, for instance, and you just spent a few hours on one of them. It's not a TED Talk. It's not me as a consultant or a speaker going to the company and saying, "This is the 10 how-to. This is the greatest methodology." But do you invite people to live an experience about that behavior? Then you see transformation.

I link these to the verb that you said before — remain. You can see, then they see. But then, you need to remain on that. And for that, it's like a muscle. You want to be a muscle. You then drop off your routine. Then our routine is needed. Do you want to have a healthy life? You have to eat healthy food. So it is okay when they don't eat healthy food. In business, it's the same thing. You want to have a healthy company culture, then you do your routine. Then you do your stuff and the things that you are working on. The strategy needs to be more than a one big thing, team building. We need to go beyond team buildings. Please, this is another message for everyone working in organizations. Let's go beyond team buildings. Because team buildings are great thing to remind ourselves why we are together. But then, we need to put in practice everything that we see in our team building. We need to do more than that.

Brandon: That's great. Do you have any advice for leaders then who are trying to highlight the more human element? I think increasingly, just with quiet quitting and the great resignation and so on, it's becoming much more important for leaders to value the talent they have. I wonder if you might be able to offer, just from your experience any tips, any advice to leaders who are listening, maybe one thing they could do that could move them in the direction that you're advocating towards more beautiful business, towards more beautiful leadership, towards creating more beautiful culture? What is one one really crucial thing they could do?

Esther: This is a great question, because it's inviting us to reflect deeply about what is needed. I'm going to link this answer to a comment that you said before. I think you said something like, I don't know if I'm a leader, but I like to connect with people. My desire, my vision is that there are potentially as many leaders in the planet as human beings. The call for leadership is not for first time for management. It's not for boards. It's not for CEOs. The call for leadership is for everyone, every single person. Because it is I said a first as an awakening and then as a commitment. First, you realize that there is something inside of you. Like, oh, I really want to do good, do great things for other people and for life. I really love life. So first is this.

Then to do your routine, like we said before, then there are commitments. One of the commitments is that you — I see two beautiful ones. One is, you want your people to shine. You really commit to that. You want your people to shine. So instead of being the one to speak, you are the one that listens, that you are the one that is going to make great questions. Not to shine by your question but to help other people to shine by a simple question that you have asked.

The other one is that, another commitment that I love is that your mind, that you commit to this. That my mind be a safe space for you. Imagine this in the wall of Google. This has a value, or as a North Star, or whatever you want to call it. But if you have an organization, if you have people committed to these to do whatever it takes to have a mind where people can rest. Because that means that you cannot do that alone. You are going to do these with people. There is no other way. But the commitment is personal. It's intimate. It's going to be difficult. It's like what we said before about our relationship. It means that you will be mistaken or so with this. Because there will be a moment that, I don't know. Perhaps, you speak about someone that is not present in that meeting. And instead of going to that person to speak about the problem you have with that person, perhaps you speak about that person with someone that you shouldn't be speaking with about that. So at that moment, your mind is not in a safe space for everyone in your team, right?

Brandon: Yeah, I'm really intrigued by this. What does it mean for my mind to be a safe space for the other? Does that mean that I need to be open to whatever challenges they bring to me? Does it mean that I put up with if they treat me badly? What exactly does that mean?

Esther: This is important. Thank you for the question. Because this doesn't mean that you don't have to put boundaries or you don't have to — all the stuff that is against the law and disrespects the dignity of a human being, that is out of this proposal. So if you have someone that is not treating you well, what you have to do is to speak up and then leave the company. Or find solutions. This thing that I'm saying, we cannot apply this to those situations.

But in a healthy environment, that means that every time that we have an interaction, I'm going to look at you with dignity and with respect. I want to witness. I'm committed to witnessing your humanity every time that we have an interaction. This is first. And second, every time that we interact, I'm going to be conscious that the way I see you is the way I make you. So if we have an interaction, and you have opinion A about this political moment and I have an opinion B, I'm going to put a label on you. Well, you are the worst. No, because if I see you as the worst, I'm going to make you as the worst. If by a mistake that you have done with this deadline or this email that you had to send to a client, and you didn't send it on time, I see you as whatever, then I'm going to make you that label. So I'm going to reduce you to that thing.

I know, and we all know that we are bigger than our mistakes, that we are bigger than our opinions. I don't know if bigger is the word but more profound, more rich. We have excuses and opportunities every single day to do the opposite, to see you as, oh, no. Because, especially, I've been a perfectionist my whole life. So I'm very, very well-trained to see what is that thing that Brandon could improve. This 1%, this small thing that you could improve, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's exhausting. That's exhausting. But if instead I see or I look at you with all the things that you do great, our interaction, our relationship is going to be different.

Brandon: That's fantastic. That's great. That was a very good advice. Very sage advice. Thank you, Esther. This has been super, super fascinating. Any final thoughts? Anything else that came to mind during our conversation that you want to share about beautiful work, beautiful leadership, beautiful culture? Anything else you'd like to add?

Esther: Yeah, just one thing now because of what you just said, which is, don't follow my advice. Please live it. Go through the experience. Don't believe me. Please do not believe me. Please, if you are listening to this podcast, this is an invitation for you to go through the experience of what I am proposing. Yeah, please, experience it.

Brandon: Fantastic. Where could we direct our viewers and listeners to your work? Where can they learn more about your work? Where could they perhaps learn how to experience what you proposed?

Esther: They can go to my website, and they can go to my LinkedIn profile or Instagram profile. Because I like to post reflections there. Sometimes I post videos as well or podcast, like this one with you, which are a great opportunity to have a beautiful conversation. Well, that was what I mean. This was more like an interview. But to reflect, really. We really need to reconquer this space of reflection, which is beautiful. We have an amazing opportunity when we reflect to them, act, align with what we love and what we really desire.

Brandon: Fantastic. Thank you, Esther. It's been such a pleasure. Thank you again for being on the podcast.

Esther: Thank you for inviting me, Brandon. Thank you so much, and congratulations for everything that you are doing. The day I met you, I was like, oh my god. This is possible. I was so happy that there was a human being in the planet working on beauty. I said, wow. This is a miracle. Really, really, I love it. Thank you.

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